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[Music]

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this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

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spread

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hey guys ryan hopping in before this

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week's episode i'm currently working on

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some top secret projects that i should

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be able to share with you all very soon

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this has left me with very little time

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between my day job here in new york city

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in time to produce a new show this week

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so i decided to unlock one of our most

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popular patreon episodes to all of you

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this was an extended conversation with

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ufo researcher david marlar we chatted

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for over two hours over on the main

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podcast feed all about his work into

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researching the black triangle ufo

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phenomenon

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so if you haven't heard that episode i'd

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highly suggest checking it out it's

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number 203 in the archives

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but there was also one case that marlar

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personally investigated that always

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intrigued me and that was a little-known

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ufo incident in which a child was badly

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burned by a ufo

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martler hopped over to patreon to give

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us another half hour of his in-depth

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research on a case in 1964 in hobbes new

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mexico where charles keith davis a young

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boy at the time noticed something

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strange in the sky that seemed to be

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getting closer as this object ascended

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charles noticed a bright flame bursting

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from it

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soon he was entirely engulfed in a fiery

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blaze

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and that was only the beginning

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in this episode marlar walks us through

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the case and shares exclusive audio from

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the boy's grandmother marlar also shares

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exclusive audio from an interview he

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conducted with charles 57 years after

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that harrowing day

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i sincerely hope you enjoy this patreon

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unlock and know that it's just a small

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example of bonus content you'll receive

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when supporting us over on patreon to

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learn more and to become a patron visit

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patreon.com

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somewhereskies my special thanks to

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david marlar and a very special thanks

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as always to you for listening

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[Music]

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welcome everyone to a very special bonus

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patreon episode of summer in the skies

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with our guest david marlar if you

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didn't listen to the feature

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length episode over on the maid feed

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please go check that out over two hours

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of just an incredible conversation with

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um one of the best ufo researchers out

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there today and he is actually giving us

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so much of his time tonight he's going

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to tell us about a very interesting case

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out of 1964

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that has uh physiological effects on a

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witness i'm going to bring them in right

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now for our patreon feed david welcome

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back to summer in the skies thank you

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ryan i appreciate it yeah this is a very

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interesting case uh this is one i read

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about years ago when i was really very

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young in the ufo field and just kind of

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trying to glamour onto anything i could

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in the way of information

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and actually apro the aerial phenomenon

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research organization uh did an article

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on this in their apro bulletin in 1964.

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and 64 was a pivotal year uh this

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occurred in hobbes new mexico which for

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those that have gone to roswell new

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mexico hobbs is even further to the

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southeast from roswell so it's really

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out in the middle of nowhere and

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this occurred on june 2nd 1964

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and what's intriguing about this is it

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just wasn't the sighting of a ufo it was

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the sighting in an apparent burn case

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where an eight-year-old boy who was the

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primary witness in this case was burned

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uh by flames that came from head to toe

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yet he was only burned from his jawline

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up

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and so i'll set the stage for this but i

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just want to kind of start off by

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letting you know what we're going to be

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talking about

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uh what's interesting about this though

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despite this uh severe nature of it it

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really wasn't investigated thoroughly

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other than an article written by uh

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coral and jim lorenzen with apro in

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1964. uh four years later one of my

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huge uh mentors if you will even though

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i never knew him because he died years

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before i was involved in ufos dr james

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mcdonald who i think is truly one of the

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the best ufo researchers that ever

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existed uh james mcdonald was getting

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interested in ufos in the mid 60s and

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started looking into some of these older

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cases and in 1968

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he had stumbled across this case from

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1964.

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uh i was able to get copies of some

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audio recordings he had done in 68 with

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the eight-year-old boy who is now 12

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and the mother and the grandmother

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now what's interesting is uh this is not

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just a solitary witness case uh the

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grandson the boy uh who was eight years

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old was burned and saw the object but so

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too did the grandmother who was only

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standing about eight to twelve feet away

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when this whole episode occurred

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now to set the stage uh hobbs new mexico

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you know very small mainstream america

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town

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the family owned a series of businesses

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in hobbs new mexico one of which was the

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local laundromat

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and in this particular case uh

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charles who is the name of the boy

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charles had just arrived there and he

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stated to me in later interviews that

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the the

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family businesses were kind of like a

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second home you know when the parents

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were working or grandparents were

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working he would just kind of hang out

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while they did their work after school

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or on weekends and he had arrived at the

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laundromat

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uh streets in hobbs new mexico

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immediately behind the laundromat was

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just a dirt parking lot and as charles

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told me even though there was the front

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door off the main street

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more often than not people would just

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pull into the back and go in the back

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entrance so

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charles is playing this is around

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roughly four in the afternoon and it was

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a nice sunny day uh in june in new

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mexico and he was playing when all of a

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sudden he looks up

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and he sees what he described as a black

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top shaped looking object

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kind of rounded on top and then pointed

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at the bottom

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and uh

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he looked at this and immediately knew

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this was something out of the ordinary

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and he said i instinctively felt like it

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was looking at me

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and i felt like i just had to move so

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he moved to the left the object which

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was hovering over a building across the

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alley from immediately behind the lot

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where he was playing uh moved to the

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left it mimicked his behavior

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he then moved to the right and then the

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object moved to the right it was like

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mirroring his behaviors he then crouched

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down behind a little concrete block that

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was there uh in the middle of the lot

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and then he stood up and moved to the

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left or right again

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at which point when he stood up the

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object moved towards him like a bullet

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as he described it

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instinctively

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he flinched and put his arms up and

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closed his eyes he said just

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instinctively it's like he said he even

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told me in my interview it's like if

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you're out in the street and you see a

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car coming and you know you don't have

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time to move you just instinctively kind

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of do this

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when he did this

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the object moved directly over his head

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about a foot above his head

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belched flames down

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which at this point the grandmother's

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attention was drawn to him she was

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standing in the back door of the

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laundromat and when the object moved at

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him like a bullet she heard a whooshing

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sound and that's what drew her attention

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to look out the back door of the

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laundromat where she saw her grandson

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with this object above him

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and helplessly she watched this

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rain of fire

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come belching out of the bottom of this

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object she described and this is what's

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interesting about the case is not only

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what happened but what didn't happen

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she described to mcdonald in 68 and in

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other news accounts because this was

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documented in the local newspapers

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that the fire came out and bathed him

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from head to toe

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and then the fire went back up into the

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object and the object took off and made

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another whooshing sound

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now

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as you can imagine the grandmother was

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shocked and horrified and even four

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years later you hear the guilt in her

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voice talking to dr james mcdonald

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because she didn't do anything to like

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protect him or save him from enduring

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this i looked out and my grandson was

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[Music]

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and it was right over his head was

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standing straight up

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and i was so astonished that i couldn't

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say anything

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i could see him and under this star

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this fire had him all covered to the

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ground

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and i could see him and under this car

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and and i could see him trying to say

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something and

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just a few minutes

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he screamed

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and this thing just

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like that and left

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and he ran to me and when he did the uh

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the outside of his

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flesh was falling off of his face

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and the hair was burned on his forehead

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uh so far up it had burned

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the top of his hair off

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and

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that was there with me uh said oh put

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some water on it and i said no but about

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that time uh

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i pulled him away from me he was locked

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around my waist and

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i said to him i said

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oh

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the skin

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was falling off of his face and so about

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that time

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his grandpa

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a grandfather

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my first husband uh drove up and i said

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a charles was burned real bad take him

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to the

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what's interesting about this is we

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don't just take this boy or now man's

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testimony at face value

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uh mcdonald interviewed you know the boy

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the grandmother and the mother four

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years after the event more importantly

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we have contemporaneous reports in the

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form of the newspaper articles which

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literally chronicled the whole episode

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from when it happened to the subsequent

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days and how his recovery was doing in

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the hospital

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so

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we have all of this well documented from

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the time period the other thing that's

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interesting is in the newspaper accounts

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the local police were investigating

281
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:52,240
this case trying to figure out what

282
00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:54,639
happened you know did the grandmother

283
00:11:59,030 --> 00:11:57,200
abuse the boy what's going on did it

284
00:12:01,829 --> 00:11:59,040
really happen and what's interesting

285
00:12:04,230 --> 00:12:01,839
ryan is as you read the day by day play

286
00:12:06,629 --> 00:12:04,240
by play in the newspaper

287
00:12:09,190 --> 00:12:06,639
they start off very skeptical

288
00:12:10,790 --> 00:12:09,200
they think initially well maybe he was

289
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:10,800
playing with matches

290
00:12:14,870 --> 00:12:12,720
well maybe he was near one of the air

291
00:12:17,110 --> 00:12:14,880
vents to the laundromat and a piece of

292
00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:17,120
lent that caught fire blew and hit his

293
00:12:20,550 --> 00:12:18,880
head they were trying like ufo

294
00:12:22,389 --> 00:12:20,560
investigators to find every practical

295
00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:22,399
explanation possible

296
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:25,120
and at the end of this whole period of

297
00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:26,800
like a week week and a half of newspaper

298
00:12:32,069 --> 00:12:29,920
articles you see systematically all

299
00:12:33,269 --> 00:12:32,079
those prosaic explanations go by the

300
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:33,279
wayside

301
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:35,040
and they were left with a question mark

302
00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:37,120
they didn't know what happened but none

303
00:12:40,629 --> 00:12:38,959
of the other x they looked for matches

304
00:12:42,389 --> 00:12:40,639
they couldn't find any matches they

305
00:12:43,750 --> 00:12:42,399
looked to see was there any dryer vent

306
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:43,760
stuff that blew out might have caught

307
00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:45,200
fire they couldn't find anything like

308
00:12:49,350 --> 00:12:47,760
that uh they looked for accelerant you

309
00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:49,360
know was he playing with gasoline and

310
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:51,680
somehow set it up they couldn't find any

311
00:12:55,829 --> 00:12:54,320
accelerant another interesting uh

312
00:12:58,790 --> 00:12:55,839
insight that the newspaper accounts

313
00:12:59,990 --> 00:12:58,800
afford us is the fact that the fbi was

314
00:13:01,750 --> 00:13:00,000
called in

315
00:13:04,710 --> 00:13:01,760
and the fbi

316
00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:04,720
uh had the skin scrapings of the boy's

317
00:13:06,389 --> 00:13:05,600
skin

318
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:06,399
hair

319
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:08,720
his t-shirt that he wore and the

320
00:13:12,310 --> 00:13:10,800
grandmothers there's different accounts

321
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:12,320
one says her blouse the other one says

322
00:13:17,190 --> 00:13:14,720
an apron she was wearing but whatever

323
00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:17,200
she was wearing where he made con direct

324
00:13:21,269 --> 00:13:19,200
contact immediately after

325
00:13:22,710 --> 00:13:21,279
they they took that as well

326
00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:22,720
and it was sent off to the fbi

327
00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:25,040
laboratories for analysis

328
00:13:29,829 --> 00:13:27,839
in 1968 the mother with a lot of

329
00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:29,839
consternation in her voice said you know

330
00:13:34,069 --> 00:13:31,839
the fbi never did get back with us and

331
00:13:35,670 --> 00:13:34,079
tell us anything and my grandmother was

332
00:13:37,829 --> 00:13:35,680
mad because she never did get her blouse

333
00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:37,839
back

334
00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:38,720
so

335
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:43,040
long story short i ran across these

336
00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:45,360
recordings and without going into a lot

337
00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:47,680
of detail i was able to track down the

338
00:13:51,910 --> 00:13:49,440
eight-year-old boy

339
00:13:54,310 --> 00:13:51,920
he actually changed his name nothing to

340
00:13:56,389 --> 00:13:54,320
do with the ufo case but his mother

341
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:56,399
later remarried and then he took on his

342
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:59,440
adopted father's name so nothing nothing

343
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:01,279
nefarious nothing to do with a ufo

344
00:14:04,790 --> 00:14:03,040
cover-up or anything like that

345
00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:04,800
but i was able to track him down after

346
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:06,880
realizing this after kind of piecing

347
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:08,880
together different elements and i was

348
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:11,040
able to find him he still lives in south

349
00:14:14,310 --> 00:14:12,880
the southwest portion of the united

350
00:14:18,629 --> 00:14:14,320
states

351
00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:18,639
and i uh interviewed him repeatedly uh

352
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:20,880
he has a a a business in the town where

353
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:23,680
he lives uh he's an upstanding citizen

354
00:14:27,509 --> 00:14:25,680
uh you know he's well known within the

355
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:27,519
community although he's never publicly

356
00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:30,000
talked about any of this

357
00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:31,199
and then

358
00:14:36,629 --> 00:14:33,440
i've gotten to know his wife as well

359
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:36,639
and his wife and he both told me

360
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:38,480
until you came along

361
00:14:42,230 --> 00:14:39,760
my wife

362
00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:42,240
has never heard this whole story she

363
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:43,920
knew about it after we had been dating

364
00:14:47,990 --> 00:14:45,360
and we knew we were going to get married

365
00:14:49,350 --> 00:14:48,000
i eventually told her about it and she

366
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:49,360
would always periodically say do you

367
00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:50,720
want to tell me more about what happened

368
00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:52,240
in 64 do you want to talk about that

369
00:14:56,790 --> 00:14:54,240
incident and he said no never he goes

370
00:14:57,590 --> 00:14:56,800
it's not until you came to talk about

371
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:57,600
this

372
00:15:01,670 --> 00:14:59,920
that she's finally heard the full story

373
00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:01,680
and then subsequent to that i found all

374
00:15:05,670 --> 00:15:03,440
the newspaper articles which they didn't

375
00:15:08,470 --> 00:15:05,680
have and i found a lot of additional

376
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:08,480
information i filed a foia request with

377
00:15:14,949 --> 00:15:11,760
the fbi relative to the fbi laboratory

378
00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:14,959
analysis of what they collected and i

379
00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:17,040
immediately got a letter of reply back

380
00:15:21,509 --> 00:15:19,360
stating that because it involves

381
00:15:23,509 --> 00:15:21,519
third-party individuals and privacy

382
00:15:24,790 --> 00:15:23,519
issues i could not request that

383
00:15:26,949 --> 00:15:24,800
information

384
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:26,959
so i sat there for all of 10 seconds and

385
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:29,199
thought okay well i know the guy who had

386
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:32,000
happened to so i redrafted the foia in

387
00:15:36,310 --> 00:15:34,160
his name sent it to him and he said

388
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:36,320
charles and i call him chuck he goes by

389
00:15:40,389 --> 00:15:38,720
chuck um i said chuck do you mind

390
00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:40,399
resubmitting this in your name because

391
00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:42,000
they can't say it's third party and we

392
00:15:47,269 --> 00:15:44,720
can't release it so he submitted that uh

393
00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:47,279
right before kovid and we don't know

394
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:48,880
where they're at with foia request right

395
00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:50,399
now because of covet so we don't know if

396
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:52,160
it's just tied up in red tape if it's in

397
00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:54,160
the queue and they'll eventually get to

398
00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:56,560
it but he did resubmit that in his name

399
00:16:03,749 --> 00:15:58,079
it'd be really interesting if we found

400
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:06,230
hi everyone my name is andy and i host

401
00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:09,600
that ufo podcast that ufo podcast brings

402
00:16:12,629 --> 00:16:11,040
you weekly content with some of the

403
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:12,639
biggest names from around the world of

404
00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:16,399
ufos uap and associated phenomena weekly

405
00:16:20,550 --> 00:16:18,399
interviews roundtable discussions and

406
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:20,560
breaking news podcasts with myself

407
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:22,560
regular co-host dan and sometimes

408
00:16:27,509 --> 00:16:25,199
special guests will drop into that ufo

409
00:16:29,350 --> 00:16:27,519
podcast is available on apple podcasts

410
00:16:31,910 --> 00:16:29,360
spotify and wherever you can download

411
00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:31,920
podcasts already having hosted names

412
00:16:37,670 --> 00:16:34,880
like louise elizondo sean cahill george

413
00:16:40,069 --> 00:16:37,680
knapp avi loeb brandon fugo ralph

414
00:16:41,749 --> 00:16:40,079
blumenthal and many more i hope you come

415
00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:41,759
and check us out and as always keep

416
00:16:43,650 --> 00:16:43,360
looking up you never know what you might

417
00:16:47,910 --> 00:16:43,660
see

418
00:16:49,509 --> 00:16:47,920
[Music]

419
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:49,519
your audience is sitting there thinking

420
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:51,680
well dave said the police investigated i

421
00:16:55,829 --> 00:16:53,199
also consulted with the hobbes new

422
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:55,839
mexico police department oh okay i have

423
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:57,680
to tell you they were extremely

424
00:17:01,110 --> 00:16:59,680
professional regardless of what i was

425
00:17:03,910 --> 00:17:01,120
asking for you know being involved in

426
00:17:06,069 --> 00:17:03,920
ufo research they were it was all via

427
00:17:07,829 --> 00:17:06,079
email and phone but they were extremely

428
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:07,839
polite and respectful and they said you

429
00:17:12,549 --> 00:17:09,600
know dave when did that happen i said

430
00:17:15,669 --> 00:17:12,559
what happened in 1964 june 2nd 1964 they

431
00:17:17,750 --> 00:17:15,679
said well we have some historic records

432
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:17,760
going back uh but we don't know how far

433
00:17:20,549 --> 00:17:18,880
back they go

434
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:20,559
and we also have some old ones on

435
00:17:23,990 --> 00:17:22,720
microfilm but they were very kind and

436
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:24,000
they checked and they said you know dave

437
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:26,240
we did go through our microfilm holdings

438
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:27,679
we don't have anything that goes back

439
00:17:32,950 --> 00:17:30,400
even close to 1964. so but they did

440
00:17:34,310 --> 00:17:32,960
check which was at least nice and i was

441
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:34,320
going to check with the hospital and

442
00:17:37,590 --> 00:17:36,080
actually i did call

443
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:37,600
i work in healthcare i've been in

444
00:17:42,070 --> 00:17:39,840
healthcare for over 20 years i know what

445
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:42,080
the record retention laws are today with

446
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:43,600
regard to medical retention and you're

447
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:45,360
lucky if they keep anything beyond 10

448
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:48,720
years let alone this span of time but

449
00:17:51,669 --> 00:17:50,080
they didn't know who i was and i just

450
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:51,679
called and i said i have i'm calling on

451
00:17:56,789 --> 00:17:54,160
behalf of a friend who had a

452
00:17:58,549 --> 00:17:56,799
a bad accident back in 1964 and i was

453
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:58,559
just curious who he had any i had to at

454
00:18:02,070 --> 00:18:00,080
least call to say i did it otherwise i'm

455
00:18:03,669 --> 00:18:02,080
not a good researcher and they kind of

456
00:18:06,070 --> 00:18:03,679
almost laughed and no we don't have

457
00:18:07,669 --> 00:18:06,080
records going back that far so i did

458
00:18:10,630 --> 00:18:07,679
consult with the hospital as well so our

459
00:18:13,430 --> 00:18:10,640
best our best case scenario is if we can

460
00:18:15,110 --> 00:18:13,440
get the fbi laboratory results and not

461
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:15,120
that it may tell us much other than well

462
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:16,559
it was burned there was no accelerant

463
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:18,320
detected but at least it's one more

464
00:18:21,510 --> 00:18:20,480
piece of validation that the fbi was

465
00:18:24,470 --> 00:18:21,520
involved

466
00:18:26,950 --> 00:18:24,480
beyond exactly charles remembers the fbi

467
00:18:28,310 --> 00:18:26,960
being there uh as he said you know when

468
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:28,320
you're eight years old and you're in the

469
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:30,799
hospital and you know these these these

470
00:18:34,150 --> 00:18:32,240
government guys come in and they've got

471
00:18:36,150 --> 00:18:34,160
you know sidearms he goes when you're

472
00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:36,160
eight years old that's cool he goes you

473
00:18:41,350 --> 00:18:37,280
remember

474
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:41,360
and he also said that he felt like the

475
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:43,440
fbi treated him uh with a little bit

476
00:18:47,029 --> 00:18:45,520
more respect and less skepticism than

477
00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:47,039
the local police did which i thought was

478
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,799
an interesting observation for an

479
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:50,480
eight-year-old to kind of pick up on

480
00:18:55,029 --> 00:18:53,280
that remember it but um he's never

481
00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:55,039
talked about this publicly since it

482
00:18:58,870 --> 00:18:57,440
happened he really just wanted to move

483
00:18:59,830 --> 00:18:58,880
on with his life

484
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:59,840
he

485
00:19:03,190 --> 00:19:01,679
and i have to emphasize this again for

486
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:03,200
the skeptics out there

487
00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:05,520
did not believe in ufos before

488
00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:07,840
did not think this was a ufo other than

489
00:19:11,990 --> 00:19:10,240
a true unidentified flying object and

490
00:19:13,590 --> 00:19:12,000
even today would not consider himself a

491
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:13,600
ufo believer

492
00:19:16,870 --> 00:19:15,360
he and his family were devout

493
00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:16,880
pentecostals

494
00:19:21,590 --> 00:19:19,200
back in 1964. i think that's very

495
00:19:23,190 --> 00:19:21,600
important these are not the people that

496
00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:23,200
are going to concoct the ufo story this

497
00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:24,880
is the furthest thing probably from

498
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:26,480
their reality

499
00:19:30,390 --> 00:19:28,960
um and so again they were upstanding

500
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:30,400
business people they had multiple

501
00:19:33,669 --> 00:19:32,480
businesses there's no reason that they

502
00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:33,679
would want to do this to ruin their

503
00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:35,760
reputation by concocting a story like

504
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:36,559
this

505
00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:37,360
um

506
00:19:44,950 --> 00:19:43,120
james mcdonald followed up on it and

507
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:44,960
then kind of following in his footsteps

508
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:46,799
i wanted to track this guy down years

509
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:49,039
later one because other than mcdonald

510
00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:50,400
doing phone interviews that was the

511
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:52,640
extent of the investigation and even

512
00:19:56,710 --> 00:19:54,720
coral and jim lorenzo with apro

513
00:19:58,470 --> 00:19:56,720
they never made a trip to hobbs so it

514
00:19:59,510 --> 00:19:58,480
was all done by phone

515
00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:59,520
and so

516
00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:01,600
how could you not investigate this case

517
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:03,200
i mean it's physical evidence of

518
00:20:06,390 --> 00:20:05,360
something very traumatic occurring

519
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:06,400
and so

520
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:08,240
uh i went to the university of new

521
00:20:11,669 --> 00:20:09,840
mexico where i do a lot of historical

522
00:20:13,270 --> 00:20:11,679
research they have exhaustive microfilm

523
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:13,280
holdings for newspapers that aren't

524
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:16,400
digitized one of those are the hobbs new

525
00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:18,640
mexico newspapers which gave me all

526
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:20,000
these additional details and

527
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:22,320
verification in addition to some other

528
00:20:26,870 --> 00:20:24,240
newspapers from the regional area the

529
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:26,880
county newspaper and even there were as

530
00:20:30,630 --> 00:20:28,960
the reports went as far as lubbock and

531
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:30,640
odessa texas where i found some

532
00:20:32,830 --> 00:20:31,600
additional

533
00:20:34,789 --> 00:20:32,840
references

534
00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:34,799
um but

535
00:20:40,549 --> 00:20:37,600
despite the fact he was covered in fire

536
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:40,559
he was only burned from the jawline up

537
00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:42,960
uh there was slight redness to his neck

538
00:20:47,990 --> 00:20:44,960
in in the back but not severe it was

539
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:48,000
more like a sunburn but uh the newspaper

540
00:20:53,430 --> 00:20:50,480
accounts uh state that he had suffered

541
00:20:55,990 --> 00:20:53,440
second-degree burns um the mother

542
00:20:57,669 --> 00:20:56,000
grandmother and boy attested to the fact

543
00:21:00,149 --> 00:20:57,679
in 68 that it was second and third

544
00:21:01,590 --> 00:21:00,159
degree burns and even today charles says

545
00:21:02,470 --> 00:21:01,600
well it was second and third degree

546
00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:02,480
burns

547
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:04,320
the most bizarre thing is despite being

548
00:21:07,909 --> 00:21:06,480
bathed head to toe he only had the

549
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:07,919
injuries here

550
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:09,600
it's interesting because the

551
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:11,679
descriptions in the newspaper

552
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:14,320
mirror what james mcdonald was told by

553
00:21:18,310 --> 00:21:16,559
the the grandmother and the mother

554
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:18,320
they said his ears were so severely

555
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:20,159
burned they were turned inside out and

556
00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:22,000
looked like ground beef

557
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:25,039
his lips were swelled and burned and his

558
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:27,039
face had swelled up so bad you couldn't

559
00:21:31,510 --> 00:21:29,280
even see his eyes they were sunken in

560
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:31,520
because the face had swelled so bad

561
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:34,000
and so i mean severe injuries

562
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:35,760
but the most bizarre thing and again

563
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:37,760
documented in the newspapers from the

564
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:39,679
time i mean this is all confirmed we're

565
00:21:42,830 --> 00:21:41,440
not taking the witnesses

566
00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:42,840
despite this

567
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:45,840
craziness these inconsistencies adding

568
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:47,600
to the inconsistencies of the fact he

569
00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:49,600
had no permanent scarring

570
00:21:54,070 --> 00:21:51,520
wow

571
00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:54,080
some sort of deformity right oh

572
00:21:59,270 --> 00:21:57,200
deformity i when i first met the man in

573
00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:59,280
you know we talked the whole time i'm

574
00:22:01,750 --> 00:22:00,400
doing the initial interview and i've

575
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:01,760
interviewed him like three or four times

576
00:22:04,710 --> 00:22:02,799
now

577
00:22:06,710 --> 00:22:04,720
the the whole time i'm just sitting

578
00:22:09,029 --> 00:22:06,720
there and i'm like scanning his head his

579
00:22:10,149 --> 00:22:09,039
face his ears his lips i mean looking at

580
00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:10,159
his neck

581
00:22:13,590 --> 00:22:11,919
and i'm like and i finally said at one

582
00:22:15,350 --> 00:22:13,600
point on the videotaped interview

583
00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:15,360
because it started with audio interviews

584
00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:17,520
and then i i built a trust now i'm happy

585
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:19,679
to say now i'm very good friends with

586
00:22:23,590 --> 00:22:21,840
him and his wife as is my wife who went

587
00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:23,600
down to do help assist with the

588
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:25,679
interviews um

589
00:22:29,029 --> 00:22:27,440
he

590
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:29,039
can't explain it

591
00:22:32,950 --> 00:22:31,760
i'm charles keith davis from hobbs new

592
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:32,960
mexico

593
00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:35,200
and in 1964

594
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:38,480
i encountered a strange object

595
00:22:42,149 --> 00:22:40,880
during daylight hours at my grandparents

596
00:22:44,789 --> 00:22:42,159
laundry mat

597
00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:44,799
that appeared over

598
00:22:47,990 --> 00:22:46,640
some apartment buildings

599
00:22:51,029 --> 00:22:48,000
that

600
00:22:51,909 --> 00:22:51,039
was in the shape of a top

601
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:51,919
that

602
00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:54,960
was been described as a ufo or whatever

603
00:22:57,990 --> 00:22:57,120
you want to describe it but

604
00:23:00,870 --> 00:22:58,000
it

605
00:23:03,029 --> 00:23:00,880
followed me and

606
00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:03,039
swooped on my body and gave me second

607
00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:05,440
and third degree burns on my face

608
00:23:09,270 --> 00:23:07,760
my grandmother witnessed part of it

609
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:09,280
brady smith

610
00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:10,799
and

611
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:12,640
i don't know what it was

612
00:23:16,149 --> 00:23:14,640
i just know that i encountered something

613
00:23:18,549 --> 00:23:16,159
very unusual

614
00:23:19,350 --> 00:23:18,559
that we've kind of kept under the closet

615
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:19,360
for

616
00:23:25,110 --> 00:23:23,280
55 years and uh up until dave came we

617
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:25,120
haven't talked about it much it's kind

618
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:26,960
of been like i'm not going to say a

619
00:23:29,830 --> 00:23:28,640
family secret but there's so many

620
00:23:31,590 --> 00:23:29,840
skeptics

621
00:23:33,110 --> 00:23:31,600
out there that it's not something you

622
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:33,120
want to talk about

623
00:23:36,870 --> 00:23:34,720
and

624
00:23:37,990 --> 00:23:36,880
if you ask me what it is or what it was

625
00:23:40,230 --> 00:23:38,000
i don't know

626
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:40,240
i just know it wasn't something you see

627
00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:42,320
every day or i've ever seen in my

628
00:23:45,669 --> 00:23:44,080
lifetime again

629
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:45,679
if it was

630
00:23:49,430 --> 00:23:48,480
domestic or from outer space i have no

631
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:49,440
idea

632
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:54,720
it it swooped toward me

633
00:23:59,110 --> 00:23:57,360
engulfed my body when it left i had

634
00:24:01,669 --> 00:23:59,120
second and third degree burns from my

635
00:24:03,029 --> 00:24:01,679
face up i i just remember feeling

636
00:24:06,789 --> 00:24:03,039
engulfed

637
00:24:09,190 --> 00:24:06,799
i don't remember feeling it burning me

638
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:09,200
the best i could describe it's in golf

639
00:24:14,230 --> 00:24:11,760
and maybe you're gasping for air because

640
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:14,240
you have a lack of oxygen i just knew

641
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:16,080
when it engulfed me something was wrong

642
00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:17,200
real wrong

643
00:24:21,269 --> 00:24:18,880
you don't have any excuse my dumb

644
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:21,279
terminology not regular wrong but

645
00:24:26,310 --> 00:24:24,400
serious wrong right and i needed to get

646
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:26,320
out of this involvement though

647
00:24:30,390 --> 00:24:28,480
and i just remember like somebody

648
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:30,400
grabbed me but nobody was grabbing me i

649
00:24:33,750 --> 00:24:32,159
was just

650
00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:33,760
yeah i was in golf

651
00:24:37,990 --> 00:24:34,640
and

652
00:24:39,909 --> 00:24:38,000
there was an immediate panic

653
00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:39,919
but in hindsight

654
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:43,120
and i'm being very sincere

655
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:44,640
i think i would have

656
00:24:49,269 --> 00:24:46,720
so i knew something was wrong

657
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:49,279
when it poof right you know you know

658
00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:51,200
something's wrong right

659
00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:52,000
but

660
00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:53,760
when it actually got me something was

661
00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:55,919
real wrong i don't know how to describe

662
00:25:01,510 --> 00:24:58,320
that i don't think i felt the sense that

663
00:25:03,430 --> 00:25:01,520
i was gonna die but i felt the sense i

664
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:03,440
had to get away from it since

665
00:25:08,470 --> 00:25:06,000
now i had to get away now yeah or it was

666
00:25:10,630 --> 00:25:08,480
going to be tragic okay but i felt no

667
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:10,640
pain i saw no fire

668
00:25:40,149 --> 00:25:12,080
i

669
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:40,159
there's no answers any more than we have

670
00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:43,120
the day that the occurrence occurred

671
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:45,600
i i asked him i said chuck i said to

672
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:47,600
look at you today and to hear your

673
00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:49,760
description of what transpired in 64 i

674
00:25:53,590 --> 00:25:52,400
said how do you account for no injuries

675
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:53,600
no scars

676
00:25:57,990 --> 00:25:56,159
and his his answer is it's just typical

677
00:25:59,190 --> 00:25:58,000
chuck if you get to know him he's like

678
00:26:01,269 --> 00:25:59,200
the only thing i can tell you is the

679
00:26:03,510 --> 00:26:01,279
strangest things are true all these

680
00:26:06,230 --> 00:26:03,520
years he and his family amongst

681
00:26:07,990 --> 00:26:06,240
themselves labored under the idea that

682
00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:08,000
whatever this thing was

683
00:26:12,789 --> 00:26:10,720
it must have been some military craft

684
00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:12,799
that went off course from white sands

685
00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:15,360
proving ground and somehow inadvertently

686
00:26:18,549 --> 00:26:16,480
burned him

687
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:18,559
that was pretty much how they resolved

688
00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:20,559
it in their mind and they just

689
00:26:24,549 --> 00:26:22,000
made peace with it and moved on with

690
00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:24,559
their lives and he told me

691
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:26,640
and this is a whole other another show i

692
00:26:29,909 --> 00:26:28,720
guess ryan this is what i guess we call

693
00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:29,919
a teaser

694
00:26:34,230 --> 00:26:32,240
in investigating that case because it

695
00:26:37,190 --> 00:26:34,240
was so compelling and the witness still

696
00:26:38,789 --> 00:26:37,200
after decades later is still

697
00:26:41,110 --> 00:26:38,799
going by their story

698
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:41,120
and the details i might add the details

699
00:26:44,549 --> 00:26:42,400
he gave me

700
00:26:46,230 --> 00:26:44,559
matched what macdonald had noted and

701
00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:46,240
matched with the lorenzens that noted

702
00:26:50,470 --> 00:26:48,240
there was no deviation in the reports it

703
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:50,480
was still consistent

704
00:26:54,630 --> 00:26:52,000
but what was interesting is the fact

705
00:26:57,669 --> 00:26:54,640
that you know as as i'm interviewing him

706
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,679
and talking to him uh i started to think

707
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:59,520
okay this is a very compelling case are

708
00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:01,200
there other cases out there and again

709
00:27:05,110 --> 00:27:02,720
big picture as i always like to call

710
00:27:07,350 --> 00:27:05,120
myself looking at patterns in the data

711
00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:07,360
i found out that

712
00:27:11,269 --> 00:27:09,200
four weeks to the day

713
00:27:14,149 --> 00:27:11,279
and this is an interesting thing the

714
00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:14,159
sighting happened on tuesday june 2nd

715
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:16,720
for chuck when he was burned

716
00:27:19,669 --> 00:27:18,480
four weeks later

717
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:19,679
tuesday

718
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:23,120
in livonia georgia we had a businessman

719
00:27:27,909 --> 00:27:25,440
that was documented in project blue book

720
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:27,919
files documented in numerous newspaper

721
00:27:32,070 --> 00:27:29,360
accounts from the time period which i

722
00:27:34,310 --> 00:27:32,080
have a businessman driving home around

723
00:27:36,789 --> 00:27:34,320
one in the morning had his arm out of

724
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:36,799
the car driving on a hot summer night in

725
00:27:42,389 --> 00:27:39,279
in georgia had a

726
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:42,399
top shaped ufo fly around his vehicle

727
00:27:47,190 --> 00:27:44,399
made three or four passes

728
00:27:49,990 --> 00:27:47,200
had burners on the underside which he

729
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:50,000
sketched where fire was belching out and

730
00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:52,000
the words that the grandmother used to

731
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:54,399
dr mcdonald and to others

732
00:27:59,750 --> 00:27:56,559
she said it was a black top shaped

733
00:28:02,789 --> 00:27:59,760
object with burners on the underside

734
00:28:05,029 --> 00:28:02,799
and this black clock shaped object

735
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:05,039
flew around this gentleman's car left

736
00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:07,520
markings on the vehicle itself and

737
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,200
burned his arm which was sticking out

738
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:11,279
not severely but enough to to cause

739
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:13,840
redness and a little bit of swelling

740
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:16,320
the air force was notified they pretty

741
00:28:21,110 --> 00:28:18,320
much discounted it

742
00:28:22,870 --> 00:28:21,120
the newspaper accounts chronicled it in

743
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,880
very good detail

744
00:28:26,630 --> 00:28:24,640
what's interesting is

745
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:26,640
the same tuesday other witnesses had

746
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:29,440
cited the top shaped ufo and in the two

747
00:28:36,070 --> 00:28:33,679
to three weeks after that on tuesdays

748
00:28:38,549 --> 00:28:36,080
multiple witnesses within an 85 mile

749
00:28:41,110 --> 00:28:38,559
radius of northeast georgia all

750
00:28:42,789 --> 00:28:41,120
described a black top shaped object

751
00:28:48,149 --> 00:28:42,799
belching fire

752
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:48,159
reported by multiple witnesses and all

753
00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:51,360
of them occurred on tuesday nights until

754
00:28:55,990 --> 00:28:54,080
around the second or third week in july

755
00:28:58,630 --> 00:28:56,000
a report in the newspaper popped up and

756
00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:58,640
there was a sighting on a thursday

757
00:29:02,070 --> 00:29:00,159
and after that

758
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:02,080
it's almost like for lack of a better

759
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:04,320
term the cycle was broken and there were

760
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:06,320
no more reports

761
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:08,559
what it means ryan i have no freaking

762
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:10,799
clue

763
00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:12,720
i can only report the data what it means

764
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:13,840
i don't know

765
00:29:19,269 --> 00:29:16,720
but it really bolsters and reinforces

766
00:29:21,269 --> 00:29:19,279
the validity of what chuck described

767
00:29:23,669 --> 00:29:21,279
because his was the first sighting

768
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:23,679
and then again expanding the parameters

769
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:25,279
of the historical research going through

770
00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:26,960
my databases and going through the files

771
00:29:31,990 --> 00:29:29,520
i have here jacques valet in one of his

772
00:29:34,630 --> 00:29:32,000
very early books described one of the

773
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:34,640
best european cases ever in an area

774
00:29:38,549 --> 00:29:36,559
called vensor caramay

775
00:29:40,789 --> 00:29:38,559
in southeast france

776
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:40,799
where it was one of the best documented

777
00:29:46,389 --> 00:29:43,840
european ufo cases where the witnesses

778
00:29:48,389 --> 00:29:46,399
described a top shaped ufo

779
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:48,399
and i took the sketch that chuck gave me

780
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:50,799
i took the sketch the witnesses provided

781
00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:53,520
it's identical in shape and dimensions

782
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:55,679
even more so and this is an obscure case

783
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:57,200
for someone that's not into ufos you

784
00:29:59,669 --> 00:29:58,960
really have to look hard to find this

785
00:30:02,310 --> 00:29:59,679
one

786
00:30:05,110 --> 00:30:02,320
and what's interesting is the dimensions

787
00:30:06,630 --> 00:30:05,120
in feet that chuck provided me just in

788
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:06,640
the last two years since i started

789
00:30:12,070 --> 00:30:09,919
interviewing him in width and height

790
00:30:15,269 --> 00:30:12,080
matched the dimensions

791
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:15,279
with a very small small margin of error

792
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:19,760
to the sketch that was sketched in 1957

793
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:22,559
uh of this french top shaped object only

794
00:30:26,710 --> 00:30:24,480
they described it in meters but when you

795
00:30:29,830 --> 00:30:26,720
convert the meters to feet it was the

796
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:29,840
same basic dimensions

797
00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:31,679
wow

798
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:34,240
that that's insane

799
00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:36,399
not only i mean just not only the

800
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:39,440
dimensions but just the fact that it

801
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:40,480
happened

802
00:30:44,870 --> 00:30:42,720
on another continent

803
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:44,880
in a different time period and the

804
00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:47,120
french case it was the same object and

805
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:48,880
it was bobbing and moving in a very

806
00:30:53,110 --> 00:30:51,360
similar fashion but it didn't have any

807
00:30:54,870 --> 00:30:53,120
fire in that particular case but there

808
00:30:57,269 --> 00:30:54,880
was some magnetization of some street

809
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:57,279
signs where the object had flown past

810
00:31:00,549 --> 00:30:58,159
so

811
00:31:02,549 --> 00:31:00,559
yeah and then even further back than

812
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:02,559
that if that's not good enough in

813
00:31:06,549 --> 00:31:04,480
project blue book files i found a case

814
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:06,559
from 1952

815
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:08,799
in levelland texas which is just about

816
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:11,760
80 to 85 miles northeast of hobbs

817
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:13,919
and it was a blue book case which they

818
00:31:18,070 --> 00:31:15,600
labeled unidentified on my dad they

819
00:31:19,750 --> 00:31:18,080
didn't say it was just ball lightning or

820
00:31:22,230 --> 00:31:19,760
the planet venus

821
00:31:24,310 --> 00:31:22,240
two witnesses observed two top shaped

822
00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:24,320
objects that were revolving

823
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:27,760
and they described fire smoke or steam

824
00:31:34,630 --> 00:31:30,840
that was jettisoning out the bottom

825
00:31:36,310 --> 00:31:34,640
hmm there you go again the data doesn't

826
00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:36,320
lie

827
00:31:40,310 --> 00:31:38,399
random people making stuff up we're not

828
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:40,320
going to find consistencies like that in

829
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:42,159
disparate reports that these people

830
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:44,080
could not have been aware of at the time

831
00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:46,559
when they made these reports and you

832
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:49,360
know i mean the researcher in me goes

833
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:50,799
back to the whole

834
00:31:55,029 --> 00:31:53,039
scheduled tuesday thing like i i'm

835
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:55,039
thinking maybe that was the night that

836
00:31:59,909 --> 00:31:57,360
they were testing some experimental

837
00:32:01,590 --> 00:31:59,919
aircraft that would explain claims it

838
00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:01,600
would explain risk that but we don't

839
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:04,159
know and i think it's important uh for

840
00:32:07,830 --> 00:32:06,080
someone like chuck to say i don't know

841
00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:07,840
what happened to me i mean that's

842
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:10,640
possibly the best answer he could give

843
00:32:13,909 --> 00:32:12,320
well what's funny is i presented this

844
00:32:15,909 --> 00:32:13,919
information once i started really

845
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:15,919
putting it all together and i went back

846
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:17,600
and i met with chuck and his wife and i

847
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:20,159
presented all this and he sat there and

848
00:32:23,509 --> 00:32:22,000
you got to know he is the most normal

849
00:32:25,830 --> 00:32:23,519
person you could ever meet just the

850
00:32:27,350 --> 00:32:25,840
average joe but he sits there and he

851
00:32:29,110 --> 00:32:27,360
leans back like this and he's stroking

852
00:32:30,070 --> 00:32:29,120
his mustache and he's like

853
00:32:32,070 --> 00:32:30,080
you know

854
00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:32,080
all these years i labored under the idea

855
00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:33,600
it was something military i didn't even

856
00:32:37,350 --> 00:32:35,840
think about ufos but he goes

857
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:37,360
i have to tell you after you shared all

858
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:39,440
this with me you got me thinking it's

859
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:42,720
like was it something else so he's not

860
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:44,640
sure he'll tell you he doesn't know what

861
00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:46,559
it was and he said we'll probably never

862
00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:48,320
know what it was but he goes it was

863
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:50,080
there and

864
00:32:54,149 --> 00:32:53,360
you know the facts are it's our yeah and

865
00:32:59,269 --> 00:32:54,159
so

866
00:33:01,909 --> 00:32:59,279
kind of series of revelations seeing how

867
00:33:04,310 --> 00:33:01,919
this pattern emerged what it means again

868
00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:04,320
i don't know but again it just i don't

869
00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:05,679
mean to sound like a broken record it

870
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:07,440
underscores why we have to have access

871
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:10,240
to as much data as possible and we can

872
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:12,559
start finding those there are patterns

873
00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:14,240
in the data we just need to find them

874
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:15,760
it's kind of like michelangelo right

875
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:18,159
when he carved david he saw the statue

876
00:33:21,430 --> 00:33:19,440
in the stone he just had to chip the

877
00:33:23,669 --> 00:33:21,440
rest away it's just like that's how we

878
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:23,679
are we we gotta find those patterns

879
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:24,799
they're there

880
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:26,880
uh i'm certain of it it's just taking

881
00:33:31,029 --> 00:33:29,519
the time and it takes a lot of research

882
00:33:32,389 --> 00:33:31,039
you know it's separating the wheat from

883
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:32,399
the chaff but

884
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:34,559
when you have these cases involving

885
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:36,320
physiological effects when you have

886
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:38,799
these cases that have been documented

887
00:33:43,110 --> 00:33:41,360
well in newspaper accounts it goes

888
00:33:46,149 --> 00:33:43,120
beyond just taking the eyewitness

889
00:33:47,990 --> 00:33:46,159
testimony at face value and

890
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,000
it's it's fascinating and that's what

891
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:50,640
again fuels me uh you know finding these

892
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:52,960
things that we didn't know about before

893
00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:54,720
and chuck thinking what happened was

894
00:33:58,870 --> 00:33:56,960
just an isolated case and just to

895
00:34:01,269 --> 00:33:58,880
provide context chuck's sighting

896
00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:01,279
happened june 2nd 1964. it was april

897
00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:04,720
24th 1964 just a few months before we

898
00:34:10,470 --> 00:34:06,880
had the lonnie zamora sighting here in

899
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:10,480
new mexico 64 was a huge wave of ufo

900
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:12,480
sightings in new mexico

901
00:34:15,510 --> 00:34:14,240
which was really typified by the the

902
00:34:17,589 --> 00:34:15,520
lonnie zamora sighting which had

903
00:34:20,069 --> 00:34:17,599
garnered more media attention than any

904
00:34:22,470 --> 00:34:20,079
of the others yeah there has to be some

905
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:22,480
sort of connection if anyone can make it

906
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:26,240
dave i know it's you my man so thank you

907
00:34:30,069 --> 00:34:28,480
yeah right no pressure thank you for

908
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:30,079
sharing that story with our patreon

909
00:34:35,190 --> 00:34:32,879
subscribers um but uh before we go of

910
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:35,200
course for them listening uh where can

911
00:34:38,950 --> 00:34:36,800
we find everything you're up to and

912
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:38,960
where can we find your book sure

913
00:34:43,950 --> 00:34:41,040
absolutely the best place is my website

914
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:43,960
www.davidmarler

915
00:34:49,430 --> 00:34:46,960
m-a-r-l-e-r ufo.com

916
00:34:51,349 --> 00:34:49,440
uh there's a link there for amazon uh i

917
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:51,359
mentioned before there's a bad amazon

918
00:34:54,629 --> 00:34:53,280
link that's floating around out there

919
00:34:55,909 --> 00:34:54,639
some people said i clicked on it and it

920
00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:55,919
said your book's not available it is

921
00:35:00,069 --> 00:34:58,560
available uh just go to my website the

922
00:35:01,670 --> 00:35:00,079
link's right on the main page as well as

923
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:01,680
some of the the work i've done with

924
00:35:06,470 --> 00:35:04,160
chris on unidentified and uh the

925
00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:06,480
phenomenon and some other things so

926
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:08,560
uh yeah never a dull moment ryan there's

927
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:10,320
always something to do

928
00:35:14,630 --> 00:35:13,200
absolutely man and you you're doing it

929
00:35:16,710 --> 00:35:14,640
so i gotta thank you for all the work

930
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:16,720
you've done and for sticking around for

931
00:35:21,230 --> 00:35:19,440
this bonus episode with us

932
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:21,240
absolutely thank you

933
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:31,760
[Music]

934
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:33,680
somewhere in the skies is produced by

935
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:35,760
third kind productions in association